Feds suspect ransom negotiator ran ShinyHunters extortion site

(krebsonsecurity.com)

111 points | by Bender 4 hours ago

6 comments

  • kevin_thibedeau 3 hours ago
    > In late September, ShinyHunters hacked the FBI recruitment website fbijobs.gov

    The OPM breach was 11 years ago and apparently the incompetence still reigns.

    • jacquesm 2 hours ago
      The quality of offensive tooling has somewhat improved during that period.
      • consumer451 39 minutes ago
        In one of Sean Carroll's AMA's, he once said something along the lines of "entropy favors the attacker over the defender."

        That really stuck with me. My internal thought was "it's easier to kick over a sand castle than to build one." It seems to ring true for infosec, societal structures, and kinetic cases. Is this just a base truth?

        • jacquesm 35 minutes ago
          Yes, I've worded this as 'the asymmetry between creation and destruction'. Any idiot can destroy a piece of glass, it takes a whole raft of experts to make a pane and then some more to properly mount it.
          • maxbond 24 minutes ago
            Per the IRA after an unsuccessful attempt to assassinate Thatcher, "Today we were unlucky, but remember we have only to be lucky once, you will have to be lucky always."
      • nradov 1 hour ago
        So why have government employees and contractors been so lazy and incompetent as to not improve defenses by a similar margin?
        • mikeyouse 1 hour ago
          The vast majority of the competent people got DOGE’d. CISA lost like 40% of their staff including much of their red team specialty. 18F was completely eliminated (“Deleted” as Musk put it). If some specialist in the FBI who could have helped prevent the hack happened to have been assigned to work on the Classified Docs case, they were also fired because the most corrupt, incompetent group of morons is running things in DC for the next few years.
          • esalman 1 hour ago
            One of the most spectacular pieces of self-own for the current administration. Restructuring/deleting the directorate for biodefense during the previous administration (of the same color) would be up there.
            • jacquesm 1 hour ago
              I can see quite a few not-so-good reasons why they wanted to weaken the cybersecurity capability of the federal government.
            • vkou 44 minutes ago
              It's not a self-own if they aren't the ones why have to deal with the consequences.

              Do you think Donnie loses a second of sleep over this?

              • esalman 24 minutes ago
                Touche. People who voted owned themselves.
          • DANmode 33 minutes ago
            > 18F was completely eliminated

            18F -> https://ndstudio.gov

            As seen credited on recent publications like real realfood.gov.

        • cowsandmilk 1 hour ago
          +1, in this case, the hackers exploited a CVE in PeopleSoft that had a published patch. The contractors just didn't apply the patch. https://www.reuters.com/technology/accenture-contractor-remo...
        • jacquesm 1 hour ago
          If they're incompetent and lazy as you say then probably because they couldn't...
  • aleksandrm 1 hour ago
    True or not, anyone trust the Feds right now? With the current administration, no one should trust the Feds right now, not a single bit.
    • Aurornis 16 minutes ago
      Did everyone in this comment section just miss the fact that the contents of the article are primarily Krebs’ research? The feds haven’t actually said anything publicly. Krebs cites someone close to the investigation, but that’s it.
      • gnabgib 12 minutes ago
        They've confirmed the part that this article is specific on[0]. The part that's vague.. is, I guess, to be announced soon?

        [0]: FBI arrests Canadian cybersecurity expert in ShinyHunters hacking case (6 points, 8 days ago) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50066759

    • dritty8 55 minutes ago
      Yeah we just need to vote in the other half of the uniparty, right guys? Let's vote even harder next time! I'm gonna voooooote hnnngh
      • rustystump 47 minutes ago
        As much as this is a bit of a shit post I dont think it is wrong. Both sides behind the scenes are in pretty strong lockstep.

        Thered need to be changes in how lobbying and certain countries are registered to make a dent. Everyone says age but I dont think that matters as much as the lobbying industry. Young people are every bit as corruptible as the old.

    • potsandpans 53 minutes ago
      Nobody should trust the feds ever. It's mostly through privilege and circumstance that they help anything ever.
    • lifeisloving 1 hour ago
      Yeah it feels like this guy is probably innocent and refused to be an informant of some kind. He probably was approached to help entrap them, stayed out of it and now the FBI is ruining his life for it.

      I wouldnt really trust them under any admin, but yeah this current regime is definately will to play fast and loose with people's lives to make themselves seem competent.

  • mmooss 2 hours ago
    Even before the current administration, federal law enforcement's leaks of suspects, especially in high-profile crimes, have been highly unreliable and have ruined lives. See Wen Ho Lee, Richard Jewell, etc.
  • vntok 2 hours ago
    Breaking Bad vibes here. "You don't want a ransom negociator, you want a ransom negociator!"
    • taneq 2 hours ago
      Better than some random negotiator.
      • Waterluvian 1 hour ago
        You can have $1,000,000 in unmarked bills as requested. Or you can have whatever is in the mystery box!
  • ofjcihen 2 hours ago
    Working in the IR space I’ve had a lot of opportunities to work with negotiators before. Most of them are extremely professional and worth their weight in gold for what they provide to their clients.

    Ridiculous that scumbags like this are tarnishing that space.

    • gregsadetsky 2 hours ago
      Can you shed a light on what this process looks like? Are negotiations are alike or completely unique? What does it boil down to..?

      Thanks!

      • gregglain 2 hours ago
        The book "Never split the difference" is a great read on hostage negotiations.
        • gregsadetsky 2 hours ago
          I do (half) remember reading that book! I actually meant to ask (in my question above) whether that book is actually "accurate"/representative of malware negotiations.
      • ofjcihen 1 hour ago
        No honestly, most of the time it’s very formulaic. You can usually tell how it’s going to go once you know who has your data.

        For instance, what’s mentioned in the article about not dealing with COM actors is great advice because chances are they’re going to keep your data and sell it or use it for future extortions no matter whether you pay.

        Other actors though have a reputation to uphold to get paid and they know it.

        An example of the process is something like:

        1. Notification by ransom operators Including proof. Negotiations start at some arbitrary number like 6 percent of reported earnings.

        2. Negotiators notified.

        3. Back and forth begins. “This isn’t really that much data, do you have more? It’s not that damning. Fine, my client is willing to pay 50k. 60k? Okay, but you need to provide proof of how you got I the data so we can close the gap”.

    • lifeisloving 59 minutes ago
      Very cringe of you to automatically believe what the FBI tells you, especially when they're embarassed and trying to save face.
    • ahelwer 2 hours ago
      Nothing is yet proven and other articles have painted this arrest as shocking.
    • cobbzilla 2 hours ago
    • nradov 1 hour ago
      Ransom negotiators are all scumbags. Their actions perpetuate further criminality and place others at greater risk. Paying a ransom should always be a criminal offense, even if not paying means that people die and businesses are destroyed.
      • lifeisloving 57 minutes ago
        [flagged]
        • solyin 48 minutes ago
          Reading their comment strongly, as the guidelines suggest, it seems they want criminals to make $0 so they stop doing that. Is it not equally "cringe" to say society can't put up with some discomfort so assholes don't get free vacations and nice toys. It's a disguised trolley problem, and there's no agreed upon answer for that one either.

          https://neal.fun/absurd-trolley-problems/

          We all gotta do what we can to get through the day, but you can't live next to someone who has the same challenge but a different answer to some trolly problem? Is your future world just a bunch of closed communities where outsiders and ideas and their differ skin color and economic background aren't welcome?

        • nradov 23 minutes ago
          Yes, I would absolutely rather have that. Preventing criminals from receiving additional money prevents them from having the resources to attack others in the future. Unlike you, I actually care about my community and think deeply about the consequences.
          • maxbond 5 minutes ago
            Alternately they may not believe starving out the criminals will actually work and so foresee different consequences. Like when Google penalized SEO, and so spammers used their networks for extortion instead of spam. Similarly if we killed ransomware, the machinery built to conduct these attacks would not just lie fallow. It's capital that will continue to be leveraged to generate returns. We may not like the next business model they come up with.

            It's not a contest, we all can care and think deeply and still come to different conclusions.

        • allenrb 21 minutes ago
          It sounds like you don’t understand the problem very well. Forgive me if that’s an incorrect interpretation.

          One way to prevent this type of crime is to ensure that it is never profitable. The downside is that there will be losses until the message is thoroughly communicated.

  • cuttysnark 2 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • Grosvenor 2 hours ago
      That wikipedia page says David Hogg's father is Kevin Hogg.
    • ChrisClark 1 hour ago
      Nope, not his father