"Forest" is a polite way to refer to what appears to be a monoculture plantation. To restore the land properly it would probably be necessary to remove 80%+ of the trees to make space for seeding or planting a diverse range of other species. Possibly 100% if the monoculture species already planted is not endemic.
Google street view imagery of the site showing logging completed by June 2026 and logs waiting collection: [1]
Sentinel-2 L2A imagery from 2026-10-11 showing the logged area: [2]
Assuming that you're correct and it is a monoculture plantation, they did not remove trees to make space for planting other species, they removed trees to make space for a data center.
I can tell you that this is, for better or worse, what a lot "forests" looks like in Sweden and Finland. A large part of our forests are industriskog (industrial forest).
This is probably all native scots pine or norway spruce, as that is what almost all of finland's forests are, and they don't plant sitka spruce plantations there like they do in Ireland or other places in Europe.
That said, there's very little old growth forest in finland and this obviously is not old growth.
I'm curious though if you know, what other species you'd expect to see here if it was properly restored?
I think local governments should be regulating and zoning new data center construction in a way that forces them to rehabilitate old industrial brownfields. There’s plenty of land already spoiled by human activity that can be reused. No reason to be cleaning nature for a warehouse full of computers that could be built anywhere.
This is an amusing little scandal, but it seems to be only a procedural issue. Assuming that Google has some basic competence, it selected locations where it's ultimately possible to build data centers while complying with all legal requirements.
My guess is that the government will eventually find that all requirements have been satisfied and let the projects move on. But because this is now a controversial issue, someone with the standing will very likely file a complaint. Then the projects will be stuck in administrative courts for a year or two.
Logging a few hundred hectares was not a problem. Google could have done that without additional permits, if their intention was to plant a new forest afterwards. Environmental impact assessment was only necessary, because they intended to replace the forest with something else.
The key question is whether Google can comply with the law after the fact. If they complete the assessment and the government finds nothing that would prevent the construction of the data centers, the project can go on. Maybe there will be some minor sanctions, as well as some delays, as they didn't do things properly the first time. And even if there is something that prevents construction, Google can still probably comply by planting a new forest.
The environmental impact assessment requirement is a national law, and the national government is responsible for approving it. But since elections are coming and the issue has become controversial, the government coalition will happily ignore it and let administrators and judges sort it out. They have bigger things to worry about.
Its a pretty egregious procedural oversight if you want to chalk it up to that.
For sure this is being politicized, for example claiming that the area was reduced to sand due to an overheated data center market. But to clear the land before doing legally required environmental impact studies is a pretty obvious mistake, and frankly I'm not sure how you'd even have landed on a plan for land clearing before doing said study if its required. How would you know what areas to clear, for example?
I think it was their Siri. Apple Intelligence lags a lot behind competitors, and back during WWDC last year Craig made an announcement about how "Siri had fallen short of expectations".
Fines are just there as a threat to make sure they're not behind on their (checks notes...what are they calling it these days again...oh that's right) PAC contributions.
they gave them extra time to finish the dirty deeds
> the Finnish Licensing and Supervision Authority (LVV) said it had issued a notice to the company to “immediately suspend” – by 23 October at the latest
These could be on the order of 300k trees, illegally cutting a tree in Germany could cost up to 50k euro, that sums up to 15B Euro. Bad math but it gives a perspective on the magnitude of not caring about the natural environment.
"Don't be evil" went away when the purchased Doubleclick advertising company completed hollowing out the old "Don't be evil" Google from the inside out.
We’re in the middle of the next technological revolution and not building is our best bet? You could’ve said that about the green revolution we should have left the fertilizer in the ground cause now we have 10 billion people and all the problems that come with it.
So what, if we don't invent the technology tomorrow we will next year. It's not like the world stops turning if innovation slows down a bit. In fact a lot of people think it's going too fast now. Even a lot of people in the industry.
And we shouldn't have made so unsustainably many people, I really don't understand why people are still fussing about birth rates when environmental crises are piling up (and social ones too like cost of living/housing)
I know this is like 2 hops off topic now, but... There's no shortage of people worldwide, it's just that particular countries have issues with low birth rates.
On topic, yes the datacenter growth can be slower.
As someone who's seen how this sausage is made in another jurisdction I assume what's going on here is Google or the builder got some sort of statement from some board to the tune of "oh well because you checked whatever boxes we will exercise our discretionary authority to waive this for you, the exact opposite of what how we'd behave if you were some uppity peasant seeking to develop some petty land". Naturally there are some who don't like this have probably complained to the next authority up who's putting some scrutiny on the situation and whatever approval they were given has been rescinded and now they gotta do it the hard expensive way.
Or it might be one of those cases where the discretionary BS you can be put through is so onerous and capricious that the cheapest way to get it done is to bulldoze first, let the threats fly and use whatever legal maneuvering that gets you to wind up with a more favorable venue (the higher up you go the more friendly to industry permitting authorities tend to become).
It's typical greenwashing though. Plant a few trees so you don't have to feel bad about the energy use. But it's all short term monoculture forests they're planting. Not destroying the real forest we have left is the better option. But yeah that's hard, you can't claim that as a quick win and make a lot of money off of it.
These initiatives are so small that they don't make a dent in the actual problem and for every "green" kilowatt hour some other factory burns extra coal because there's no green capacity left.
All ecosia does is give people who are mildly environmentally conscious an excuse to not feel guilty, and making good money off it. It's just like the 2$ carbon offset fees on flights. No way that tiny amount actually offsets anything of course. It's just someone getting rich of absolving others' guilt.
That photo looks horrible. Of all places, why cut down a ton of trees to build a data center. I hope the trees were used to build housing for the homeless or something. Maybe a youth center at least?
I don’t know much about Findland, so maybe there are trees everywhere.
As an executive of a company, I can think of no reason to remove that as a value unless of course (checks notes) you are condoning and encouraging evil.
All this red tape just slows down innovation. There is too much of a compute shortage right now that we need to figure out how to accelerate datacenter build outs.
I agree, and, want to point out this wasn't old growth forest. At least, none of the standing trees in the photos look like old growth. If it was, that would be a huge story, but it would have been very odd for Google to put a data center in old growth forest. Almost all of Finland is covered by managed/logged forests like this, so it's kind of inevitable if building a datacenter there that it is going to replace forest.
The same is true in much of the world actually, over half of the earth's surface was forested before humans started clearing it.
That does seem a bit dramatic. What Google did here, assuming the reporting is true, is absolutely bad but it isn't unprecedented. I'm not sure how clearing land for a development would be considered a new level of evil.
That's not the most evil thing that Google has been doing. Setting up a global surveillance network comes to mind. And algorithm based engagement on things like YouTube. They've also led the industry monetisation of personal data.
I think the world would be a much better place if Google and it's peers had never existed.
Google street view imagery of the site showing logging completed by June 2026 and logs waiting collection: [1]
Sentinel-2 L2A imagery from 2026-10-11 showing the logged area: [2]
[1] https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/91500+Tahvola,+Finland/...
[2] https://browser.dataspace.copernicus.eu/?zoom=15&lat=64.8369...
That said, there's very little old growth forest in finland and this obviously is not old growth.
I'm curious though if you know, what other species you'd expect to see here if it was properly restored?
But it wasn't their own high standards, it was a legal obligation that they neglected?
I hope in vain that the powers that be are able to punish them in a way they will actually feel...
My guess is that the government will eventually find that all requirements have been satisfied and let the projects move on. But because this is now a controversial issue, someone with the standing will very likely file a complaint. Then the projects will be stuck in administrative courts for a year or two.
If you go out and illegally cut down a tree, that's not "only a procedural issue". They illegally logged 815 acres of forest.
Logging a few hundred hectares was not a problem. Google could have done that without additional permits, if their intention was to plant a new forest afterwards. Environmental impact assessment was only necessary, because they intended to replace the forest with something else.
The key question is whether Google can comply with the law after the fact. If they complete the assessment and the government finds nothing that would prevent the construction of the data centers, the project can go on. Maybe there will be some minor sanctions, as well as some delays, as they didn't do things properly the first time. And even if there is something that prevents construction, Google can still probably comply by planting a new forest.
For sure this is being politicized, for example claiming that the area was reduced to sand due to an overheated data center market. But to clear the land before doing legally required environmental impact studies is a pretty obvious mistake, and frankly I'm not sure how you'd even have landed on a plan for land clearing before doing said study if its required. How would you know what areas to clear, for example?
Pose your question to them and they can say "sure if you need to finish our statement with...high standards to follow law... you do you"
Subject = our high standards
Predicate = whatever context you want to store here
That way you can evade all sorts of labour and environmental laws and if it blows up you just pop the contractor and find a new one.
They will not.
Founders need to speak on this. If they've got time to get in the weeds on gemini, they've got time for this
Apple said the same rhetorical non-apology apologetically, recently... about something??
Entirely possible they were advised by the same crisis management firm like FGS Global or Brunswick Group.
There is a whole giant industry around pretending to be sorry effectively.
Oh man they are going to consider a fine, that would probably be barely an inconvenience to google.
> the Finnish Licensing and Supervision Authority (LVV) said it had issued a notice to the company to “immediately suspend” – by 23 October at the latest
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49968324
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49982364
- Fell 330 hectares of forest for Data Center 1
- Fell 200 hectares of forest for Data Center 2
Ah. A fine. That'll teach them.
(No wonder they ignored you.)
And we shouldn't have made so unsustainably many people, I really don't understand why people are still fussing about birth rates when environmental crises are piling up (and social ones too like cost of living/housing)
On topic, yes the datacenter growth can be slower.
"One of America’s Last Chestnut Groves Is About to Be Destroyed for a Data Center"
https://www.gadgetreview.com/one-of-americas-last-chestnut-g...
Or it might be one of those cases where the discretionary BS you can be put through is so onerous and capricious that the cheapest way to get it done is to bulldoze first, let the threats fly and use whatever legal maneuvering that gets you to wind up with a more favorable venue (the higher up you go the more friendly to industry permitting authorities tend to become).
It's typical greenwashing though. Plant a few trees so you don't have to feel bad about the energy use. But it's all short term monoculture forests they're planting. Not destroying the real forest we have left is the better option. But yeah that's hard, you can't claim that as a quick win and make a lot of money off of it.
These initiatives are so small that they don't make a dent in the actual problem and for every "green" kilowatt hour some other factory burns extra coal because there's no green capacity left.
All ecosia does is give people who are mildly environmentally conscious an excuse to not feel guilty, and making good money off it. It's just like the 2$ carbon offset fees on flights. No way that tiny amount actually offsets anything of course. It's just someone getting rich of absolving others' guilt.
[1] https://youtu.be/L3LbxDZRgA4
I don’t know much about Findland, so maybe there are trees everywhere.
"Do no evil" is a functionally impossible standard. Subtle difference but it matters.
https://abc.xyz/investor/board-and-governance/google-code-of...
Search the page for the phrase.
Old growth forest don't just come back.
The same is true in much of the world actually, over half of the earth's surface was forested before humans started clearing it.
I think the world would be a much better place if Google and it's peers had never existed.