13 comments

  • whatever1 2 hours ago
    Remember when they were telling us how important the 5G race was and how critical was for the US to lead it?

    And now they are just giving it away ?

    • rjzzleep 36 minutes ago
      I'm surprised that people don't know the patent landscape. The US may be leading 5G patents in total numbers, probably by multinational corps. But 8 out of 10 top university contributions come from China and Huawei is the largest single company contributor in 5G research. Qualcomm wouldn't make an agreement with Huawei if they didn't need to.

      To the people that say "why can't Huawei make a 5G phone". Huawei was manufacturing their chips with 5G modems at TSMC until the US went after them trying to turn them into HTC or Alstom Energy, but it failed. It's one of the reasons why Taiwan now has zero leverage as the US has been hollowing them out since the last administration. But Huawei have been building their own domestically produced modems for a few years now.

      I used to attend the communication network meetups with all the professors in Germany and mI think all of them agree that all that energy sanctioning China should have been spent on actual competition domestically in the West.

      https://insights.greyb.com/5g-patent-landscape/

      • T-RN-R 34 minutes ago
        Huawei gets a lot of research output from its many Canadian Research and Development centres
        • tonyhart7 22 minutes ago
          what are you implying here ??? they steal it from Canada RnD ??
          • maxglute 19 minutes ago
            Charitable interpretation is Huawei actually had R&D + academic linkages in Canada (was expanding aggressively globally), but Canada still drop in bucket, Canada R&D headcount peaked ~1k vs ~100k in PRC. Post sanction, Canada basically siloed from doing crown jewel work anyway.
    • jillesvangurp 1 hour ago
      The alternative would be trying to file court cases outside the US for Qualcomm, which is where Huawei does most of its business and infringing.

      There's a long history of various companies doing patent license deals like this in the telecom industry. Nokia still earns a lot of money this way, for example. Apple settled with them on a few occasions.

      Speaking of which; Apple has its own 5G chips now so they are a bit less dependent on Qualcomm now. Huawei and Apple both have a lot of their own in house technology at this point. But of course Qualcomm always was a strong IP company with lots of patents and its impossible for either to make phones without infringing on at least some of those patterns. And vice versa, a lot of Qualcomm's stuff would necessarily infringe on some patents by others.

      That's why these cross licensing deals like this are usually the outcome of disputes around IP.

    • helsinkiandrew 28 minutes ago
      > And now they are just giving it away ?

      That's now how standards work - to become 5g the tech needs to be implementable by everyone at a FRAND cost (fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory). Sharing patents just means Qualcomm and Huawei won't bill each other.

      Huawei is a massive R&D company - I'm sure they're contributing as much as Qualcomm

    • AlanYx 1 hour ago
      They're not giving it away, rather they're essentially forming a patent oligopoly. Huawei and Qualcomm together hold the bulk of patents for 5G. It's of no value to them to try to litigate against each other. Here they're getting a cross-licensing deal that will solidify their patent licensing wall/revenues.

      Is it potentially anticompetitive? Yes.

      • dozerly 1 hour ago
        No corporations would enter an agreement that is pro-competition, doesn’t make sense. That’s where government needs to step up and provide some value
        • AlanYx 1 hour ago
          It's a hard area for the government to navigate because IP is designed to confer monopoly power. As long as Qualcomm walks a careful line on licensing costs/behaviour, they probably think the risk of being the target of antitrust sanctions is limited or manageable.

          Consumers will likely pay incrementally higher prices though.

      • whizzter 1 hour ago
        Asking Gemini it seems their patents covers about 25% of the number of applicable patents, behind them is Samsung, Ericsson and Nokia.

        No breakdown on the age of the patents though so it'd be interesting to see how things evolve over the years.

        • AlanYx 1 hour ago
          AFAIK, a lot of the Ericsson and Nokia patents are legacy. Companies still need to license them, but they're not targeted at the latest generation of 5G polar codes, MIMO OFDM implementations, etc. Not sure about Samsung.

          Qualcomm does more than 5 billion a year in patent licensing revenue. It's a licensing behemoth.

    • porridgeraisin 25 minutes ago
      The point is that this allows QC to sell chips in China without royalty.
    • vachina 2 hours ago
      Huawei has been leading in 5G deployments until US decides him and his allies cannot be friends with Huawei.

      Qualcomm will benefit greatly from this arrangement.

      • yftsui 2 hours ago
        Leading in 5G deployments yet cannot make a 5G phone?
        • bayindirh 2 hours ago
          Nokia and Ericsson is leading telecommunications without making 5G phones.

          I'm not talking about the company which makes "Nokia Phones". I'm talking about Nokia the infrastructure company.

          • pjmlp 1 hour ago
            Which nowadays owns the birthplace of UNIX.
        • froh 2 hours ago
          HUAWEI Mate 20 X 5G was launched in 2019, so what exactly are you referencing here?
        • dudisubekti 2 hours ago
          ?

          They've been making their own 5g phones since 2023 (mate 60)

    • coliveira 31 minutes ago
      The US will never lead 5G because many key patents there are owned by Huawei. Same for 6G. They're just now acknowledging reality.
      • quantum_state 10 minutes ago
        The US sanctions itself out of the game. I m afraid if the trend continues, it may sanction itself out of the rest of the world.
    • earldennison 1 hour ago
      maybe 6g is on the way and they don't care about 5g anymore.
    • kotaKat 1 hour ago
      Nortel 2.0.

      Canada remembers how fucked over we got in espionage.

      Now Qualcomm’s just giving them it on a silver platter.

  • rwmj 2 hours ago
    Aren't Huawei on the Entity List? How can Qualcomm enter into agreements like this without getting into massive hot water?
    • maxglute 31 minutes ago
      IIRC US/BIS carved out exemptions for intangibles like SEP patent licenses. Entity list for controlled goods export/import. Regardless, US would also be stupid not to pay Huawei, PRC pays $4 for every $1 she receives for IP, ~30B deficit, most to US. PRC takes home more $$$ if US tries to lawfare it's way out of paying. But bigger stick is PRC entrenched in supply chains enough that Huawei (with PRC pressure) can sue OEMs (patent enforcement happens at device level)... all domestic PRC manufactures, foxconn, samsung, apple (really anyone that uses PRC supply chains at all) on chopping block, i.e. functionally global sales injunction against any 3/4/5g hardware that uses QC which has to use HW SEPs, which covers their entire portfolio... mobile, auto, iot, edge comptue... aka QC dead if it doesn't pay.
    • ovi256 1 hour ago
      Big companies were sometimes getting sanction waivers. In energy, Exxon for example has been getting waivers to keep investing in Russian oil and gas since 2014. They got out in 2022 though, and the waivers stopped (I've no idea which ended first, the waivers or Exxon's interest in those projects).
    • nicce 2 hours ago
      With the current state of the U.S politics, nothing is sure.
    • Havoc 2 hours ago
      They can just donate some crypto to one of the Trump kids to get it approved…
  • maxglute 40 minutes ago
    How the turntables etc.

    Pre sanctions, HW fine buying QC for mobile chipset StandardEssentialPatentswhile QC pay HW for 5g SEPs, with net balance favoring QC. Huawei indigenized mobile SoC + 5g hardware with Kirin 9000 in 2023. Hilariously, now that Huawei weaned off QC SoC... QC simply stuck net paying Huawei.

  • quincy_jones 46 minutes ago
    Qualcomm doing sneaky stuff as usual. Nothing more
  • zoobab 50 minutes ago
    Qualcomm is a patent troll, boycott.
    • Sayrus 42 minutes ago
      Good luck finding chips that don't use any Qualcomm IP.
  • zoobab 2 hours ago
    Cartels.
  • newsclues 2 hours ago
  • ExpertAdvisor01 2 hours ago
    "This transaction will close following receipt of the necessary regulatory approvals"
  • derin-picment 57 minutes ago
    This is less surprising if you view telecom patents as a mutual-assured-infringement system rather than a moat for any single company. As others noted, Qualcomm (~$5B/yr in licensing), Huawei, Samsung, Ericsson and Nokia all hold overlapping SEPs for 5G — polar codes, massive MIMO, OFDM variants — so nobody can ship a compliant radio without infringing someone. Cross-licenses are the equilibrium: litigating everywhere Huawei actually sells (outside the US) would be ruinously expensive for Qualcomm, and Huawei needs Qualcomm's portfolio for handsets and IoT.

    The interesting questions for me: 1) what FRAND rate they settled on, since that becomes a comp for future deals with smaller OEMs who don't have a portfolio to trade, and 2) how Entity List / regulatory approvals shape the structure — the announcement says closing follows regulatory approvals, which suggests carve-outs around what's actually transferable vs. pure patent peace. For startups the takeaway is sobering: the "patent wall" effect mentioned here means you're licensing from an oligopoly whether you build infrastructure or devices.

  • soltanov 1 hour ago
    Standard SEP mutual assured destruction.

    Neither company can ship modern cellular basebands or RAN silicon without stepping on the other's portfolio. FRAND terms make endless global litigation a negative-ROI exercise, Entity List or not. Cross-licensing is the only operational path to extract rents and lock third parties out.

  • alexx-devv 35 minutes ago
    [dead]
  • nickdothutton 2 hours ago
    Ah yes, Huawei, that well known adherent to patent agreements.
    • phatfish 2 hours ago
      Patents just embed western monopolies and cost everyone except the sovereign wealth funds and private equity that own everything in the west.

      Someone has to tear it down, and it's not going to come from within. No balls on this side.

      • zoobab 2 hours ago
        Here in Europe, the Unified Patent Court just rubberstamped software patents with a smartwatch decision, saying adding a button makes the whole thing patentable, even though it's only software.

        Like FFII.org predicted in 2006:

        https://ffii.org/

        "In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalize software patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy. Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of software, they are now seeking to create a central Unitary patent court (UPC), which would establish and enforce patentability rules in their favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts or democratically elected legislators."

        Not to mention the judges in that court are part time working for Nokia or Airbus.

    • vincnetas 2 hours ago
      You know, at this scale law, is more like suggestion if benefits of not following it are better.

      Apple ordered to pay $5.7bn after losing vibration tech patent suit (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c6je85n2vyleo)

      You can ask AI to summarise the list of when for example apple ignored patents. I get 16 cases.

    • dudisubekti 2 hours ago
      What a strange sarcasm, nobody's forcing Qualcomm to do this.
    • whatever1 2 hours ago
      QC will send them a sad emoji if their patents are violated in China.
  • mirekrusin 2 hours ago
    Patents serve cartels. Good luck for innovative startups trying to enter this rigged game.